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Thieves Guild - Skyrim vs Oblivion
Jun. 25th, 2022 02:39 pmThieves Guild - Skyrim vs Oblivion
Which guild is more true, believable and atmospheric? Let's consider.
We come to the Thieves Guild when they are both in decline. In Riften, the thieves were driven under the slop bucket - into the sewer (I can imagine what kind of unsanitary conditions reigned in "The Ragged Flagon"), in Cyrodiil, the Thieves Guild showed maximum caution, and accepted into its ranks only honest vagrants-prisoners, former inmates. That is, you have to sit out from bell to bell, then the Gray Fox will know about you. In Skyrim, you just appeared in the city, as Brynjolf rolls up to you. In the same way, he would roll up to anyone. He is so stupid that he does not even calculate the consequences - what if you fail the task? He does not care - he is formally clean before the law, you are responsible for everything. The true thieves' the way approach is to find a sucker who will do everything for you.
There is already a difference in attitude - in Oblivion they recruit loyal members of the guild, they are cautious and afraid of failure, in Skyrim they recruit disposable torpedoes, which they don’t care about.
In Oblivion and in Skyrim, there is the same test of skills, the main thing is stealth and the ability to open locks. There is a similarity in this. But then what? Then in Cyrodiil you have to steal for a very small amount and then steal money from the taxes of the poor. And Hieronymus Lex is a risky guy. he collected money from Raven Camoran, a member of the Mythic Dawn and son of Mankar Camoran. He was lucky that Mankar was busy, otherwise he would have made a zombie out of Lex and made him dance until he would tear himself to pieces.
In Cyrodiil, you immediately contact the doyen of the guild, while in Skyrim you still have to get to the head of the guild - the secret passage is closed to us, and the path to "The Ragged Flagon" lies past 4 very strong enemies. And here it is not very clear - on the one hand, this guarantees that the guards will not go there, but then the hero will not get to the guild either. Cyrodiil dictates the rules of real thieves - don't make corpses, don't be a scammer. And in Skyrim, the hero comes to the thieves, leaving a mark on the floor from the blood of enemies - and no one cares about this. Brothers do not live according to concepts.
The first task of the Thieves Guild of Skarim is a banal racket. It's disgusting. Just now at the market you demonstrated your fine skills as a pickpocket - and this is a piece goods, and right there you are sent to beat money from merchants like cannon fodder. They do not honor the thieves' hierarchy in Skyrim at all. What if the merchants handed you over to the guards? In Cyrodiil, there is not even a question of racketeering. There, let the shadow cover you. Quietly rustling in the night, dragging the stolen goods to Bruma.
The main idea of the guild is not to steal from the poor. In an economically undeveloped riften standing on the edge of Skyrim, who does not have a working port (ships cannot sail into Riften - a waterfall and bridges interferes), there is absolutely no point made in nightmare of a small business.
And now let's see who is our victim for the racket? Haelga, who barely contains its unprofitable "Haelga's Bunkhouse". The owner of the only store "The Pawned Prawn"?. Keerava, the mistress of the Tavern “The Bee and Barb”, where Maven Black-Briar herself holds meetings, Maven Black-Briar, who dictates both thieves and Yarla her conditions! Where is the logic? I always wanted to bring a bunch of Dwemersky vases and hand it to the unfortunate Bersi Honey-Hand, and I always felt sorry that the developers did not provide for such an opportunity.
Obtaining tasks - in Oblivion you have to wait for midnight in the port area, in Skyrim - come at any time. In the Cyrodiil - an absolute secret and conspiracy, in Skyrim - every guard knows about thieves under the city. In the Cyrodiil - the guard presses the thieves, Hieronymus Lex is chasing them, in Skyrim - everyone does not care. Brynjolf arranges a fraudulent representation in the market in the middle of the day, and all to suffer.
The next task is that in the Cyrodiil we steal a bust from the chapel, and this serves as an operation to identify an informer in the ranks of the guild. In Skyrim - you are entrusted with ... assault on the "Goldenglow Estate", with the obligatory vandalism and burning of the hives. You can already rename the guild of thieves into the gang of robbers-tanks. If your participation in a multi -route combination is justified in the Cyrodiil - they check you, then in Skyrim is clearly made that even an experienced guild member is a of a Vex, did not cope and received a kick from a guy who is a guardian of the sewage system.
Where is the logic? In Skyrim, you cannot just cut the chicken, and at the same time for several hours there is a violent assault on the estate, with screams, cries. The smoke of burning hives, and all this is within direct visibility from riften - and everyone does not care! Only a local dragon will fly to participate in a rural disco. How to understand this?
Of course, you can take a ton of potion of invisibility with you and, with a high secrecy skill, you can do everything quietly, and the safe is cleaned at night, and even the hive can be set fire to, throwing fire balls from the shore. Although, in general, the task is interesting, it does not fall into the logic and canvas of atmosphere.
The next quest - in the Cyrodiil, we work scouts, collect information, sneak along the corridors and return the Ahdarji ring. You meet the senior member of the guild. In Skyrim - you get the task of Maven Black-Briar, which is completely nothing to do with the guild. And you are sent to clean the basement from rats and a crazy magician, and once again they are betray - you are not informed of a strong dude who lives there. This does not fit into the thieves' atmosphere. If in Cyrodiil - you are already a member of the guild, albeit low-ranking, then in Skyrim you are still a Robber-Kamikaze.
The next quest - there is no calm in Cyrodiil, thieves are anxious. The guards is looking for thieves. The Thieves Guild takes a risk, and nobly returns the Hrormir's Icestaff, forcing to reckon with himself. In Skyrim, at first we steal a box of wine for the Argonian, and then we kill a crowd of robbers. Even Gulum-Ei can be killed, although this is one of the most convenient future buyers of stolen goods. The quiet mission is not passable, since it is necessary to talk with the Gulum-Ei, and several bandits and the leader walk nearby. In Oblivion, senior guild members calculate the risks for you and plan what to do. You are only a good performer. In Skyrim - chaos, no planning. I went to negotiations, cut out a whole cave of horkers and bandits - a common thing. Of course, additional tasks from Vex and Delvin are really for thieves, but we are considering the main plot of the guild.
The next mission in Cyrodiil is absolutely peaceful. We mimic the worker, help the prisoner run, and even do a noble business - we kill a vampire. And what about Skyrim? Together with the head of the guild, we climb into the Nordic ruins ... to kill the former member of the guild - Karliah. I am indignant with you.
Further, the Cyrodiil takes place a complex combination of the expulsion of Hieronymus Lex ... for raising in his rank - he will now guard the countess the Anvil. In Skyrim - for the first time a normal quest, fitting in the orientation of the guild - to decipher the notes, for this you need to kill spiders and sneak up to the text, copying it. Although the mission can be turned into a bloody battle.
The next task is that in Cyrodiil you need to steal a stone from Temple of the Ancestor Moths, and is allowed to kill priests. In Skyrim, the normal mission - after the news that the head of the guild robbed the guild, the hero must be penetrated into the house of the head of the guild.
The next task - In Skyrim, you just need to go to Nocturnal. Moreover, you will also be appointed the head of the guild, unexpectedly. In Cyrodiil, everything is serious, you need to get the Arrow of Extrication, breaking through the army of the undead. The task from the Gray Fox himself.
The next task - In Cyrodiil, you need to get the boots of Quick-footed Jack with a fight, taking them away from the vampire. In Skyrim - they go to the holy business, kill Mercer Frey, take the Skeleton Key.. Here are the questions - why does not the entire guild go to battle with Mercer Frey? Because their money is gone. And the second question, the most interesting - Nocturnal is the patroness of thieves. So why was she angry at the one who robbed her? On the contrary, it is a sign of exclusivity. Mercer Frey is a thief who stole from thieves, which means he is the ultimate thief. Where is the logic in the actions of Nocturnal? And what does Nocturnal give? Worthless armor and weapons. Since when are armor and weapons an element of a thief? And in Skyrim, only after the return of the key, you can choose one of the talents, and then it is activated.
The main joke is that Dovahkiin himself can walk with the Skeleton Key, but Nocturnal will not be angry with him.
In the last quest in Cyrodiil, you need to show all your abilities - a mage, a warrior, and a thief. The Gray Fox will resign and live on his retirement savings, and they are rather big, I suppose. But on the other hand, everything is official, although the Gray Fox mask does not work, but the pathos of the official transfer of power is observed, in the Port area even a guild branch has been opened. On the street, more and more new faces greet you, greet you like a thief.
In Skyrim, it's the same as always. The old gang is back together, and you are still a baby, the merchants whisper nasty things after you, the guards threaten to cut off your hand. The whole plot revolved around the conflict of the old team.
The main essence of the guilds of thieves - both the Gray Fox and Karliah pursued their goals. The Gray Fox wanted to get rid of the mask, and Karlia gave you and Brynjolf into slavery to Nocturnal, like glass containers to a glass collection point. However, Nocturnal will have to fight for the soul of Dovakin, there are serious competitors - Hircine, Sithis and even Hermaeus Mora. Interesting, in general, people have a life.
Bottom line - Cyrodiil's thieves' guild is more believable, follows guild rules more closely, and is more atmospheric.
In Skyrim, it is deployed in only one city, saturated with cowardice, corruption, fear and poverty. In Cyrodiil - branches in different cities.
In Cyrodiil, there is no shortage of personnel for the guild. In Skyrim, you're the only contender who... didn't make it to "The Ragged Flagon". At least the first time.
In Cyrodiil, thieves live in houses like ordinary people. Even you. And the conspiracy is top notch. In Skyrim, thieves sit in the sewers, from which there are only 2 exits, and both can be easily blocked, strangling the entire guild at once.
In Cyrodiil - there is an increase in ranks in the thieves' hierarchy. In Skyrim, no.
In Skyrim in Riften, thieves constantly hung out in the blacksmith's house. Most often, two at once.
In Skyrim, the thieves' guild is more like a criminal gang controlled by a local oligarchy, who in turn extort money from the local jarl. In Cyrodiil, this is an extensive organization that has entangled all the cities with a network of beggar scouts.
Which guild is more true, believable and atmospheric? Let's consider.
We come to the Thieves Guild when they are both in decline. In Riften, the thieves were driven under the slop bucket - into the sewer (I can imagine what kind of unsanitary conditions reigned in "The Ragged Flagon"), in Cyrodiil, the Thieves Guild showed maximum caution, and accepted into its ranks only honest vagrants-prisoners, former inmates. That is, you have to sit out from bell to bell, then the Gray Fox will know about you. In Skyrim, you just appeared in the city, as Brynjolf rolls up to you. In the same way, he would roll up to anyone. He is so stupid that he does not even calculate the consequences - what if you fail the task? He does not care - he is formally clean before the law, you are responsible for everything. The true thieves' the way approach is to find a sucker who will do everything for you.
There is already a difference in attitude - in Oblivion they recruit loyal members of the guild, they are cautious and afraid of failure, in Skyrim they recruit disposable torpedoes, which they don’t care about.
In Oblivion and in Skyrim, there is the same test of skills, the main thing is stealth and the ability to open locks. There is a similarity in this. But then what? Then in Cyrodiil you have to steal for a very small amount and then steal money from the taxes of the poor. And Hieronymus Lex is a risky guy. he collected money from Raven Camoran, a member of the Mythic Dawn and son of Mankar Camoran. He was lucky that Mankar was busy, otherwise he would have made a zombie out of Lex and made him dance until he would tear himself to pieces.
In Cyrodiil, you immediately contact the doyen of the guild, while in Skyrim you still have to get to the head of the guild - the secret passage is closed to us, and the path to "The Ragged Flagon" lies past 4 very strong enemies. And here it is not very clear - on the one hand, this guarantees that the guards will not go there, but then the hero will not get to the guild either. Cyrodiil dictates the rules of real thieves - don't make corpses, don't be a scammer. And in Skyrim, the hero comes to the thieves, leaving a mark on the floor from the blood of enemies - and no one cares about this. Brothers do not live according to concepts.
The first task of the Thieves Guild of Skarim is a banal racket. It's disgusting. Just now at the market you demonstrated your fine skills as a pickpocket - and this is a piece goods, and right there you are sent to beat money from merchants like cannon fodder. They do not honor the thieves' hierarchy in Skyrim at all. What if the merchants handed you over to the guards? In Cyrodiil, there is not even a question of racketeering. There, let the shadow cover you. Quietly rustling in the night, dragging the stolen goods to Bruma.
The main idea of the guild is not to steal from the poor. In an economically undeveloped riften standing on the edge of Skyrim, who does not have a working port (ships cannot sail into Riften - a waterfall and bridges interferes), there is absolutely no point made in nightmare of a small business.
And now let's see who is our victim for the racket? Haelga, who barely contains its unprofitable "Haelga's Bunkhouse". The owner of the only store "The Pawned Prawn"?. Keerava, the mistress of the Tavern “The Bee and Barb”, where Maven Black-Briar herself holds meetings, Maven Black-Briar, who dictates both thieves and Yarla her conditions! Where is the logic? I always wanted to bring a bunch of Dwemersky vases and hand it to the unfortunate Bersi Honey-Hand, and I always felt sorry that the developers did not provide for such an opportunity.
Obtaining tasks - in Oblivion you have to wait for midnight in the port area, in Skyrim - come at any time. In the Cyrodiil - an absolute secret and conspiracy, in Skyrim - every guard knows about thieves under the city. In the Cyrodiil - the guard presses the thieves, Hieronymus Lex is chasing them, in Skyrim - everyone does not care. Brynjolf arranges a fraudulent representation in the market in the middle of the day, and all to suffer.
The next task is that in the Cyrodiil we steal a bust from the chapel, and this serves as an operation to identify an informer in the ranks of the guild. In Skyrim - you are entrusted with ... assault on the "Goldenglow Estate", with the obligatory vandalism and burning of the hives. You can already rename the guild of thieves into the gang of robbers-tanks. If your participation in a multi -route combination is justified in the Cyrodiil - they check you, then in Skyrim is clearly made that even an experienced guild member is a of a Vex, did not cope and received a kick from a guy who is a guardian of the sewage system.
Where is the logic? In Skyrim, you cannot just cut the chicken, and at the same time for several hours there is a violent assault on the estate, with screams, cries. The smoke of burning hives, and all this is within direct visibility from riften - and everyone does not care! Only a local dragon will fly to participate in a rural disco. How to understand this?
Of course, you can take a ton of potion of invisibility with you and, with a high secrecy skill, you can do everything quietly, and the safe is cleaned at night, and even the hive can be set fire to, throwing fire balls from the shore. Although, in general, the task is interesting, it does not fall into the logic and canvas of atmosphere.
The next quest - in the Cyrodiil, we work scouts, collect information, sneak along the corridors and return the Ahdarji ring. You meet the senior member of the guild. In Skyrim - you get the task of Maven Black-Briar, which is completely nothing to do with the guild. And you are sent to clean the basement from rats and a crazy magician, and once again they are betray - you are not informed of a strong dude who lives there. This does not fit into the thieves' atmosphere. If in Cyrodiil - you are already a member of the guild, albeit low-ranking, then in Skyrim you are still a Robber-Kamikaze.
The next quest - there is no calm in Cyrodiil, thieves are anxious. The guards is looking for thieves. The Thieves Guild takes a risk, and nobly returns the Hrormir's Icestaff, forcing to reckon with himself. In Skyrim, at first we steal a box of wine for the Argonian, and then we kill a crowd of robbers. Even Gulum-Ei can be killed, although this is one of the most convenient future buyers of stolen goods. The quiet mission is not passable, since it is necessary to talk with the Gulum-Ei, and several bandits and the leader walk nearby. In Oblivion, senior guild members calculate the risks for you and plan what to do. You are only a good performer. In Skyrim - chaos, no planning. I went to negotiations, cut out a whole cave of horkers and bandits - a common thing. Of course, additional tasks from Vex and Delvin are really for thieves, but we are considering the main plot of the guild.
The next mission in Cyrodiil is absolutely peaceful. We mimic the worker, help the prisoner run, and even do a noble business - we kill a vampire. And what about Skyrim? Together with the head of the guild, we climb into the Nordic ruins ... to kill the former member of the guild - Karliah. I am indignant with you.
Further, the Cyrodiil takes place a complex combination of the expulsion of Hieronymus Lex ... for raising in his rank - he will now guard the countess the Anvil. In Skyrim - for the first time a normal quest, fitting in the orientation of the guild - to decipher the notes, for this you need to kill spiders and sneak up to the text, copying it. Although the mission can be turned into a bloody battle.
The next task is that in Cyrodiil you need to steal a stone from Temple of the Ancestor Moths, and is allowed to kill priests. In Skyrim, the normal mission - after the news that the head of the guild robbed the guild, the hero must be penetrated into the house of the head of the guild.
The next task - In Skyrim, you just need to go to Nocturnal. Moreover, you will also be appointed the head of the guild, unexpectedly. In Cyrodiil, everything is serious, you need to get the Arrow of Extrication, breaking through the army of the undead. The task from the Gray Fox himself.
The next task - In Cyrodiil, you need to get the boots of Quick-footed Jack with a fight, taking them away from the vampire. In Skyrim - they go to the holy business, kill Mercer Frey, take the Skeleton Key.. Here are the questions - why does not the entire guild go to battle with Mercer Frey? Because their money is gone. And the second question, the most interesting - Nocturnal is the patroness of thieves. So why was she angry at the one who robbed her? On the contrary, it is a sign of exclusivity. Mercer Frey is a thief who stole from thieves, which means he is the ultimate thief. Where is the logic in the actions of Nocturnal? And what does Nocturnal give? Worthless armor and weapons. Since when are armor and weapons an element of a thief? And in Skyrim, only after the return of the key, you can choose one of the talents, and then it is activated.
The main joke is that Dovahkiin himself can walk with the Skeleton Key, but Nocturnal will not be angry with him.
In the last quest in Cyrodiil, you need to show all your abilities - a mage, a warrior, and a thief. The Gray Fox will resign and live on his retirement savings, and they are rather big, I suppose. But on the other hand, everything is official, although the Gray Fox mask does not work, but the pathos of the official transfer of power is observed, in the Port area even a guild branch has been opened. On the street, more and more new faces greet you, greet you like a thief.
In Skyrim, it's the same as always. The old gang is back together, and you are still a baby, the merchants whisper nasty things after you, the guards threaten to cut off your hand. The whole plot revolved around the conflict of the old team.
The main essence of the guilds of thieves - both the Gray Fox and Karliah pursued their goals. The Gray Fox wanted to get rid of the mask, and Karlia gave you and Brynjolf into slavery to Nocturnal, like glass containers to a glass collection point. However, Nocturnal will have to fight for the soul of Dovakin, there are serious competitors - Hircine, Sithis and even Hermaeus Mora. Interesting, in general, people have a life.
Bottom line - Cyrodiil's thieves' guild is more believable, follows guild rules more closely, and is more atmospheric.
In Skyrim, it is deployed in only one city, saturated with cowardice, corruption, fear and poverty. In Cyrodiil - branches in different cities.
In Cyrodiil, there is no shortage of personnel for the guild. In Skyrim, you're the only contender who... didn't make it to "The Ragged Flagon". At least the first time.
In Cyrodiil, thieves live in houses like ordinary people. Even you. And the conspiracy is top notch. In Skyrim, thieves sit in the sewers, from which there are only 2 exits, and both can be easily blocked, strangling the entire guild at once.
In Cyrodiil - there is an increase in ranks in the thieves' hierarchy. In Skyrim, no.
In Skyrim in Riften, thieves constantly hung out in the blacksmith's house. Most often, two at once.
In Skyrim, the thieves' guild is more like a criminal gang controlled by a local oligarchy, who in turn extort money from the local jarl. In Cyrodiil, this is an extensive organization that has entangled all the cities with a network of beggar scouts.
